Simutrans Forum Archive

The International Simutrans Forum > Projects and Web Resources > Web Resources > Project: Get.Simutrans.com > Topic: Multi-lingual support
Author
Topic: Multi-lingual support  (Read 1813 times)
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Multi-lingual support
« on: April 01, 2007, 01:20:39 PM »
If we have a volunteer representing each language, we can create packages that startup in that language.

Also, I could create other subdomains -- translate the word "get" into each relevant language (but only using a-z characters)...
Gogo
Member
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 490
gordan.adzic@hotmail.com
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 01:24:01 PM »
I would suggest dohvati.simutrans.com for Croatian. I will provide translation, too

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." (Einstein)
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 01:25:08 PM »
Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 01:34:42 PM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Awesome. As I find out what words to use, I'll get the subdomains set up and post the login info in the Lounge.

Consider this to be an open request for words in languages that people can help support. Smiley
martin
Member
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 345
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2007, 02:29:28 PM »
How about creating child domains in a specific language (ie de.get.simutrans.com; es.get.simutrans.com; it.get.simutrans.com) which are linked to from 'main' page? I'm asking because I wouldn't know a better suitable word in dutch. . .

PS: get.simutrans.com/<language-id>/ would also be an option.

Martin
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2007, 02:46:45 PM »
I'm open to that idea - in tandem with the other idea, I think...

It really depends on what best suits a language, I'd say.

OTOH... there's room to argue that the get.simutrans.com idea might be best suited for use at simutrans.com itself; maybe, though, simutrans.com could continue to be the portal pointing to all things Simutrans, including get.simturans.com.

However, I've often wanted to see the creation of XX.simutrans.com for the languages...

So maybe instead of XX.get.simutrans.com; maybe that would be a good use for XX.simutrans.com.
Tomas
Member
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 208
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2007, 03:11:59 PM »
Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on April 01, 2007, 02:46:45 PM
So maybe instead of XX.get.simutrans.com; maybe that would be a good use for XX.simutrans.com.
And what: simutrans.com/{language}  ?? eg. simutrans.com/CS-cz/ , simutrans.com/EN-us , etc ...
This message can't contain virus, but i using Linux Wink
If you can drink and drive, I can smoke and fly.
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2007, 03:14:45 PM »
Well, at least in the case of English, no need for multiple versions of the language...

But I'm partial to subdomains for any number of reasons... people usually find subdomains easier than folders...

So I would personally strongly prefer cs.simutrans.com to simutrans.com/cs. One good reason: It allows for separate maintainers much more easily.
fagonella
live from Bucharest
Member
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 4016
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2007, 03:16:37 PM »
I would like better get.simutrans.com/XX/.
Maybe some scripts could even detect the default language of the browser and redirect the users to their language (if present, else: english).
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2007, 03:22:22 PM »
Now you have presented an objective reason... Smiley

However, I offer this counter-idea: I like the idea of language detection - but why not allow simutrans.com to redirect to the appropriate xx.simutrans.com? Smiley
fagonella
live from Bucharest
Member
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 4016
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2007, 03:43:05 PM »
IMHO:
- www.simutrans.com --> Simutrans (English) homepage. Like www.mozilla.org etc... Content: "About Simutrans", "History", "Gameplay" (static pages), links to the other Simutrans sites
- forum.simutrans.com --> this forum. The most dynamic site. No more to say. (Multilingual)
- <language>.simutrans.com --> localised homepage. Basically, a translation of www.simutrans.com, but it could contain more depending on its community (e.g. PT or ES)
- wiki.simutrans.com --> main Online documentation centre. Multilingual (EN & DE so far, but more could be provided)
- get.simutrans.com --> download page. Simple and effective. Multilanguage (through get.simutrans.com/<language>)
- <other_project>.simutrans.com --> other projects
robofish
Member
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 821
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2007, 03:48:43 PM »
support Thumb up


martin
Member
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 345
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2007, 04:06:02 PM »
I agree with fagonella, thinking about XX.simutrans.com I (as a random visitor) would expect www.simutrans.com in the given language, which is out of scope here. (New project in the making?)

Language detection of the users browser is a neat idea, and would work for both child domains and folders. There should come an option to select a different language though.
fagonella
live from Bucharest
Member
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 4016
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2007, 04:13:31 PM »
Quote from: martin on April 01, 2007, 04:06:02 PM
thinking about XX.simutrans.com I (as a random visitor) would expect www.simutrans.com in the given language, which is out of scope here.
exactly! you got my point. wink

Quote from: martin on April 01, 2007, 04:06:02 PM
There should come an option to select a different language though.
Indeed. Language switch should always be granted, for many reasons, such as:
- browser language could be wrong or English only
- you could wish to browse using another language
- "professional look" (see www.europa.eu for a neat (institutional!!!!!!!!) example of multi-language environment)
- etc...
LondonBVE
Back from missing period
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 393
Same name but short of my real name.
pmmeforit@gmail.com.sg
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2007, 06:42:49 AM »
Fagonella's idea was great totally support. Thumb up I can translate to both simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese. So Chinese would be ZH.
Inaugural Youth Olympics City, Singapore 2010
Singtel Singapore F1 Grand Prix. Be Part of the History.
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2007, 09:08:00 AM »
I now nearly agree with Fagonella. Smiley

Given that technology changes over time, I definitely want to see subdomains instead of subfolders. But I don't see where anything is lost! In fact, that provides an easy way of changing languages...

simutrans.com - should try to detect language, and redirect based on the detection. Regardless of detection, a menu at the top with available languages should exist for manual redirection by the user. The redirection should be to XX.simutrans.com, where XX = language code.

XX.simutrans.com - should be the language equiv of simutrans.com

get.simutrans.com - should, as simutrans.com, detect the language and redirect to (GET).simutrans.com, where (GET) represents the translation of that word into the relevant language. Again, get.simutrans.com should have a language selection bar.

In both cases, the sites should attempt to set a cookie with the language preference, so in cases of incorrect or undesired language detection, if cookies are allowed, it will remember the choice.

In fact, we could attach the cookie to simutrans.com and privately distribute information about how to access variables to subdomain maintainers, so that anyone who would like to detect languages may also use it.

So in other words - I support the idea of simutrans.com and get.simutrans.com appearing in the user's detected language - but I strongly suggest subdomains instead of subdirectories, for ease of maintenance, among other reasons. Smiley
fagonella
live from Bucharest
Member
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 4016
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2007, 09:54:51 AM »
Now I quite agree mrgreen
But I'd suggest to consider get.XX.simutrans.com as well (maybe together with www.XX.simutrans.com) being XX the language code. It seems better organised to me ponder
robofish
Member
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 821
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2007, 10:45:37 AM »
Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on April 02, 2007, 09:08:00 AM
get.simutrans.com - should, as simutrans.com, detect the language and redirect to (GET).simutrans.com, where (GET) represents the translation of that word into the relevant language. Again, get.simutrans.com should have a language selection bar.
Problem: there is no direct good(!) direct translation into german (I expect that other languages might be problematic to)
Therefore I rather like fagonella's idea, although I don't think, sub-sub-domains are a good choice ... so why don't step back to subfolders for different languages on other domains than www.simutrans.com? (what you said before, fagonella)
I don't see any advantages of subdomains compared to subdirectories ... ponder

Quote
In both cases, the sites should attempt to set a cookie with the language preference, so in cases of incorrect or undesired language detection, if cookies are allowed, it will remember the choice.

In fact, we could attach the cookie to simutrans.com and privately distribute information about how to access variables to subdomain maintainers, so that anyone who would like to detect languages may also use it.

So in other words - I support the idea of simutrans.com and get.simutrans.com appearing in the user's detected language - but I strongly suggest subdomains instead of subdirectories, for ease of maintenance, among other reasons. Smiley
In like this idea, but I think further discussion should take place in subdomain-board ...

Result:
www.simutrans.com as portal for choosing language
<language>.simutrans.com as a localized portal to all the other subdomains (like www.simutrans.com now)
*.simutrans.com/<language>/ for any other localized domains


Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2007, 12:16:19 PM »
Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 01:24:25 PM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Quote from: robofish on April 02, 2007, 10:45:37 AM
I don't see any advantages of subdomains compared to subdirectories ... ponder

Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on April 01, 2007, 03:14:45 PM
But I'm partial to subdomains for any number of reasons... people usually find subdomains easier than folders...

So I would personally strongly prefer cs.simutrans.com to simutrans.com/cs. One good reason: It allows for separate maintainers much more easily.

This also comes into play as the language communities take over responsibility (if/when they do) for their subdomains.

For instance, the Japanese community has a "reseller" account on the server that allows them to create subdomains as they need.

My goal is to give the language communities the ability to create working spaces, just like I do for the English community now...

So Raven needs a space to upload his work? raven.simutrans.com.

(I have to step away for a moment, I'll edit this post in a few minutes)

EDIT: I lost my train of thought. heh. But those are some of the reasons... I'm not giving this as a final answer with no more debate possible, more good reasons may come up - just in my mind at the moment, this is what I think is best-- so either I'll be converted to the folder idea somehow, or you guys will come to think this is okay. heh. I'm not worried - we'll work it out. Smiley
robofish
Member
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 821
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2007, 02:07:26 PM »
Quote from: Isaac.Eiland-Hall on April 01, 2007, 03:14:45 PM
But I'm partial to subdomains for any number of reasons... people usually find subdomains easier than folders...

So I would personally strongly prefer cs.simutrans.com to simutrans.com/cs. One good reason: It allows for separate maintainers much more easily.
I think, your argumentation is perfectly fine, that is why I said:
Quote
www.simutrans.com as portal for choosing language
<language>.simutrans.com as a localized portal to all the other subdomains (like www.simutrans.com now)

But if a project is only managed by one person (like setup.simutrans.com), its probably easier to work with subfolders.
Quote from: robofish on April 02, 2007, 10:45:37 AM
*.simutrans.com/<language>/ for any other localized domains

That implies, that get.simutrans.com should be maintained my a small circle of persons IMHO
This couple of persons would have the task to e.g. collect translations from the community. The less people are involved, the more flexible it is, the faster we have results. For projects in real-life, I usually set the limit to 6 persons... ponder


Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2007, 02:18:11 PM »
Hmm... so it was less disagreement and more misunderstanding by me. I can live with that. Wink

The reason for allowing multiple people access to get.simutrans.com is the theory that different people may help create packages, and thus need access to upload; as well as the theory that different people will be busy at different times; so hopefully more cooks won't spoil the soup -- more cooks will help make sure each soup batch gets done (i.e. each new release gets added)... Cheesy

I think that as we get this idea hashed out and going - it will be just a few people in control of a particular subdomain; and I think you're entirely right.

I'm also trying to, as I can, actually set up resources out there, using the theory that if I give us something basic to work with, it may help spur others to point out the weaknesses in anything I do, so that we end up with something better... that in addition to all this talk that seems to get nothing done - I think it's all valuable.

In fact, I would specifically, while I'm thinking about it, like to thank you specifically, and also everyone else working on this.

I'm excited to see where this is going. Smiley
fagonella
live from Bucharest
Member
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 4016
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2007, 04:25:45 PM »
I agree with Robofish that get.simutrans.com should be mantained by a small group (maybe up to 10-12, but well organised). Communities, having their workspace granted, should do nothing for get.simutrans.com other than localising (i.e. translating) its texts. There's plenty of room for their projects (subforums, forums like JP and DE, localised homepage) but get.simutrans.com should be a common ground (like sourceforge.com is for tons of projects). My 2 cents.
Isaac.Eiland-Hall
Benevolent Dictator
Member
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 6700
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2007, 04:44:16 PM »
In one of the other threads (sorry, short on time atm), I was pondering about writing a light database app that would basically allow people to upload a package, and enter it into a database. Each record would store:

- OS
- Language
- Simutrans Version
- Pak
- Description of package

Also probably:
- Type (installer / archive to be extracted / Simusetup or something)

We could then detect OS and language and redirect to a page with downloads for that OS/language, while offering menus at the top to change language and OS.

This is slightly more thought out that my post in the other thread.

Sorry for being disjoined, but I figured it was important to get that out there to be thought upon. Cheesy

That would also solve the subdomain/subfolder issue - and still give us a distributable link, as far as it goes. Heck, I could even make it appear to USE something like get.simutrans.com/en/win/ as the path.....

Hmm!
fagonella
live from Bucharest
Member
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
Gender: Male
Posts: 4016
Re: Multi-lingual support
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2007, 05:14:50 PM »
Thumb up
Now the plan seems perfect!
(Sorry about repeating, but this is *really* professional-looking woot)
The International Simutrans Forum > Projects and Web Resources > Web Resources > Project: Get.Simutrans.com > Topic: Multi-lingual support
This page is part of the Simutrans Forum Archive, a static copy of the old International Simutrans Forum. For the current forum, please visit forum.simutrans.com. For other Simutrans-related resources, please see simutrans.com.
If you need to contact me about this archive, please e-mail me at: tb [at] entropy {dot} me (dot) uk.